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| drobilla | rgareus: Especially with your plugins, MIDI stuff is really starting to fill up the hierarchy, in sometimes a bit of a forced way (e.g. that's not really what people figure "Filter" means there) | 17:31 |
|---|---|---|
| drobilla | Time to add a new top-level to organize "musical" stuff? | 17:32 |
| drobilla | An old thought, but I could never come up with a name since we don't want it to be MIDI specific so much | 17:32 |
| drobilla | So I'm thinking maybe "expression", to go along with a probable new note/parameter control extension, and that can generally become our term for "musical control things" | 17:33 |
| falktx | do we have a plugin type MIDI yet? | 17:36 |
| falktx | like flanger, filter, compressor, gate, etc | 17:36 |
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| rgareus | drobilla: what hierarchy ? | 17:45 |
| rgareus | plugin categorization? | 17:46 |
| rgareus | drobilla: if so, yeah I wondered if "Filter" is appropriate for those midi-filters. We did discuss this at some point. of all currently available categories it's the closest. | 17:50 |
| drobilla | rgareus: yes | 17:50 |
| rgareus | though it may have been a discussion with The_CLA and oofus. I don't remember... They were uncategorized at first. | 17:51 |
| drobilla | falktx: No, and I'm not sure I even want one, at least for many things, since it will screw us for plugins that support the same conceptual message in a few different formats | 17:51 |
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| drobilla | e.g. a note plugin might support both OSC and MIDI | 17:51 |
| drobilla | The only real overlap with "expression" is expression-as-in-programming, but that's actually sort of a good thing, since logic stuff (if we're sending around floats in a modular or something) would fit there, too | 17:52 |
| rgareus | we have "CombPlugin" as subtype of filter and "HighpassPlugin". That would make "DataFilterPlugin" and "ControlFilterPlugin" not odd at all in that set. | 17:53 |
| rgareus | how many CombPlugin's are there? One? | 17:54 |
| falktx | DataManipulationPlugin | 17:54 |
| rgareus | falktx: sounds good, too | 17:55 |
| drobilla | rgareus: Comb is under Filter for me | 17:55 |
| drobilla | falktx: Everything is a data manipulation plugin :) | 17:55 |
| rgareus | drobilla: yes, all midifilters from my set are: "one in, one out" they're not generators (!), they're filters only. | 17:55 |
| falktx | NotAnAudioPlugin :) | 17:56 |
| drobilla | rgareus: Expression->Filter is my thinking | 17:56 |
| drobilla | We also have a few 'get the value' plugins (midimsg), not sure what I'd call those | 17:57 |
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| drobilla | In programming languages that's called projection but nobody knows what that means | 17:57 |
| rgareus | or UtilityPlugin -> DataProcessing | 17:57 |
| drobilla | Destruction/Construction | 17:57 |
| drobilla | rgareus: Utility is already too much of a kitchen sink | 17:57 |
| rgareus | drobilla: indeed | 17:58 |
| drobilla | rgareus: Personally I find if I'm looking for an "eventey" plugin, that's all I want to see anyway, a top level class for all that stuff would make this much easier | 17:58 |
| drobilla | (Though we already have too many top-levels) | 17:58 |
| rgareus | Delay, Reverb and Spatial (top-level) should have been grouped. | 17:59 |
| rgareus | can we still do that? | 17:59 |
| falktx | reverb is inside delay afaik | 17:59 |
| drobilla | Envelopes currently have no real home either | 17:59 |
| drobilla | "Temporal" would conceptually be a good new top level to cram delay and stuff like that into, but a bit nerdy | 18:00 |
| rgareus | falktx: looks like a bug. at http://lv2plug.in/ns/lv2core/ it's listed twice | 18:00 |
| drobilla | rgareus: Yes. As long as the classes themselves remain, the subclass relationships between them can change and everything should be fine | 18:00 |
| rgareus | at the Index > Classes on that page. | 18:00 |
| rgareus | Reverb is *NOT* a special Delay. that seems wrong. | 18:01 |
| drobilla | I think at some point somehwere I Officially™ mandated that the hierarchy is not fixed and implementations must not assume it is | 18:01 |
| drobilla | rgareus: Yeah, that one always confuses me | 18:01 |
| drobilla | Theoretically it kinda sorta is but no music person looks in Delay for Reverb on first go, but yet another top-level for just Reverb, eh.. | 18:01 |
| drobilla | rgareus: Not a "bug" per-se (deliberate) but maybe not ideal. Simulator is kinda weird anyway | 18:02 |
| drobilla | (What other hosts display the hierarchy in a menu?) | 18:03 |
| rgareus | we need a TLC: "SpaceTime" -> delay, spatial, reverb, ambisonics, WFS | 18:03 |
| falktx | linuxdsp defines its own plugin categories btw | 18:04 |
| falktx | it looks kinda "funny" in ingen... | 18:04 |
| rgareus | falktx: got an example? | 18:05 |
| drobilla | falktx: Like, a "LinuxDSP" one? | 18:05 |
| falktx | let me do a screenshot | 18:05 |
| rgareus | falktx: I meant, what names, URIs does he use? | 18:05 |
| falktx | fqdn http://linuxdsp... etc as category | 18:05 |
| rgareus | falktx: OT, did you get ardour-osx to work? does carla run in there as LV2? | 18:08 |
| falktx | I didn't try yet | 18:09 |
| * rgareus neither | 18:09 | |
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| falktx | rgareus: drobilla: http://i.imgur.com/ngdmG2z.png | 18:11 |
| rgareus | are the dups a bug in ingen or does he use different URIs ? | 18:13 |
| falktx | I think it's different URIs | 18:14 |
| falktx | <http://linuxdsp.co.uk/lv2/dyn1-4000.lv2> a lv2:Plugin, linuxdsp:linuxdspDYN4000MonoPlugin ; | 18:15 |
| falktx | <http://linuxdsp.co.uk/lv2/dyn2-4000.lv2> a lv2:Plugin, linuxdsp:linuxdspDYN4000StereoPlugin ; | 18:15 |
| falktx | linuxdspDYN4000StereoPlugin is defined as: | 18:17 |
| falktx | a rdfs:Class ; rdfs:label "linuxDSP Dynamics" ; rdfs:subClassOf lv2:Plugin . | 18:17 |
| falktx | I think the custom class might be on purpose... | 18:18 |
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| drobilla | falktx: ew | 18:25 |
| drobilla | WTF would he do that? | 18:25 |
| falktx | do it appears first :) | 18:25 |
| falktx | *so | 18:25 |
| * falktx wonders if ardour does the same | 18:25 | |
| drobilla | Technically there are other reasons one might want to give a plugin other types, LV2 could declare a special type or property for classes that are supposed to show up as categories | 18:26 |
| drobilla | But I suspect this is just wrong anyway | 18:26 |
| drobilla | Why have a class for every plugin when the plugin is essentially a class itself anyway? (if not in the RDF sense, we bridge an odd gap there) | 18:27 |
| falktx | ardour3 seems to be a bit better and joins categories with the same name | 18:28 |
| falktx | but they still appear as their own category | 18:29 |
| drobilla | For some value of "better" | 18:29 |
| drobilla | Labels are not identiiers | 18:29 |
| drobilla | Indeed, we're about to have two called "Filter" and they're very different | 18:29 |
| drobilla | I will have to look at the data and see WTF he is attempting to do here | 18:30 |
| falktx | http://i.imgur.com/eyBCoJh.png | 18:30 |
| drobilla | This is not going to be fun if it's a deliberate marketing attempt to hijack the categories for Manufacturer™ organization | 18:32 |
| drobilla | There's already a "by creator" though | 18:33 |
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| drobilla | I should really move my hierarchical menu code into Ardour, that menu is brutal | 18:36 |
| falktx | when a menu doesn't fit on the screen, something is wrong | 18:37 |
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| drobilla | Oh, right, I can't just reuse the same code because Ardour doesn't necessarily depend on LV2 | 19:00 |
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