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| RhizomaticNomad | quit | 07:04 |
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| hollunder | Hi there | 07:32 |
| hollunder | Did the stream work yesterday? (And how?) | 07:35 |
| sed__ | yes | 07:42 |
| sed__ | fine | 07:42 |
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| inot | hello all | 07:43 |
| hollunder | hello | 07:44 |
| inot | I have question i can't accest linux audio live streaming on http://lac.linuxaudio.org/2015/vid/-2 | 07:45 |
| LAbot` | Title: LAC 2015: Video: Live Stream (LQ) (at lac.linuxaudio.org) | 07:45 |
| hollunder | so far I get a static image (when playing with mpv). And now a 404 | 07:45 |
| hollunder | for thw lq-stream I got a 404 all the time | 07:45 |
| hollunder | ah, lq works now | 07:46 |
| hollunder | hq as well, so far picture only | 07:46 |
| inot | somebody tell Me a way for accest live streaming , I can't see anything | 07:47 |
| hollunder | inot, try again now | 07:47 |
| hollunder | mpv or mplayer http://lacstreamer.stackingdwarves.net/lac2015-hq.webm | 07:47 |
| hollunder | or the same with lq instead of hq | 07:47 |
| hollunder | works on and off for me... | 07:51 |
| inot | ok thanks hollunder | 07:51 |
| inot | but I can't hear audio | 07:51 |
| hollunder | inot, maybe there is none yet | 07:51 |
| sed__ | picture format is 4/3 by default as it seems, should be 16/9 I think (unless you have some food distribution issues in deutschland) | 07:52 |
| Theremin | audio is there ! :D | 07:52 |
| inot | hess thanks , My internet speed to slow | 07:56 |
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| hollunder | I keep getting messages about cache issues... | 07:56 |
| hollunder | but the video plays fine... | 07:57 |
| hollunder | the image format was wrong here as well | 07:58 |
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| nilsge | good morning channel! | 08:02 |
| hollunder | Hi Nils :) | 08:02 |
| hollunder | Do we have a mplayer guru here who can tell us how to correct the aspect ratio? | 08:03 |
| sed__ | hmm, yesterday the slides were too wide (16/9 instead of 4/3 I guess) and today it's the opposite | 08:03 |
| sed__ | the speaker should be 16/9 and is 4/3 | 08:04 |
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| hollunder | The slides look fine in VLC, but the cam is wrong | 08:05 |
| nilsge | I don't know about mplayer finecontrol. But if you use smplayer, the front end, there should be a simple menu to do that. | 08:05 |
| hollunder | so this is an issue at the source, you can only have one, correct slides or correct video | 08:05 |
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| hollunder | just hitting 'a' does cycle through the aspect ratios | 08:06 |
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| hollunder | in VLC at least | 08:07 |
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| hollunder | If you prefer correct Letz and incorrect slides, you can add -video-aspect=16:9 to your mpv/mplayer line | 08:11 |
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| janosch2 | yeah, sorry for that. we will change that after the talk. then you'll have incorrect ration of the slides, but that's acceptable I think. | 08:13 |
| hollunder | correct aspect ratio for both would be nicer, but if that's not possible, I prefer the wide slides over the thin speaker. | 08:15 |
| janbam_ | Hi folks! The webm URL on lac.linuxaudio.org/2015/vid/-1 also points to lac2015-lq.webm. Shouldn't this be lac2015-hq.webm? | 08:20 |
| janbam_ | (I mean the direct URL at the bottom, not the embedded one) | 08:21 |
| janosch2 | yep. thanks for mentioning that. we'll fix that. | 08:23 |
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| janbam_ | actually the embedded player also has the lq stream as src... | 08:28 |
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| rgareus | janbam_: link is fixed | 08:30 |
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| janbam_ | thx! | 08:30 |
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| rgareus | janbam_: thanks for the heads up | 08:30 |
| curlymorphic | Hi, is the video stream working. I could connect yesterday, but not this morning. | 08:31 |
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| sed__ | curlymorphic, it's working | 08:32 |
| janbam_ | For me its working in VLC but not in the browser (iceweasel) | 08:35 |
| curlymorphic | janbam_, ty will try that | 08:35 |
| janosch2 | i was told that refreshing a few times would help in browser. but vlc, mplayer, etc. should work fine. | 08:36 |
| janbam_ | yup. Turning it off and on again did the trick ;) | 08:37 |
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| curlymorphic | ty, I have it working. | 08:40 |
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| janosch2 | we are restarting the stream now - to change the aspect ratio. will only take a second | 08:41 |
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| janosch2 | okay. we're back. the aspect ratio should match that of the cameras now. | 08:45 |
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| hollunder | looks good so far | 08:46 |
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| czhenry | today, it looks like I need an even lower quality stream--the network just can't keep up | 09:10 |
| czhenry | I'm enjoying this talk, anyhow | 09:11 |
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| AutoStatic | Questions for Harry anyone? | 09:19 |
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| hollunder | Maybe I just didn't get this part, but does AVTK embed well in all sorts of hosts (gtk, qt, ...)? | 09:26 |
| fundamental | rescaling/layout is a hard problem... | 09:26 |
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| hollunder | as far as I recall there are problems with embedding qt plugins in gtk hosts or vice versa | 09:27 |
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| hollunder | thanks | 09:28 |
| AndreeeCZ | how do you access the stream? | 09:30 |
| hollunder | AndreeeCZ, mpv http://lacstreamer.stackingdwarves.net/lac2015-hq.webm or mplayer or vlc | 09:31 |
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| hollunder | or replace hq with lq if your connection is slow | 09:31 |
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| AndreeeCZ | hollunder, is there a link that would work in a browser? | 09:31 |
| hollunder | AndreeeCZ, I didn't try the browser stuff: http://lac.linuxaudio.org/2015/vid/-1 | 09:32 |
| LAbot` | Title: LAC 2015: Video: Live Stream (HQ) (at lac.linuxaudio.org) | 09:32 |
| hollunder | same with -2 for low quality | 09:32 |
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| hollunder | you can find those from the schedule: http://lac.linuxaudio.org/2015/program?mode=table&day=2 | 09:33 |
| LAbot` | Title: LAC 2015: Schedule [Linux Audio Conference] (at lac.linuxaudio.org) | 09:33 |
| AndreeeCZ | hollunder, does it work for you? | 09:45 |
| hollunder | AndreeeCZ, yes, I also tried the browser thing briefly, and it works for me | 09:46 |
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| AndreeeCZ | hollunder, thank you | 09:52 |
| RhizomaticNomad | hey, i'm still looking for a place to stay the next two nights ... if you can offer me a couch or a place an the floor (i've a sleeping bag with me) please talk to me (pink spike hair ;) or write here | 09:52 |
| hollunder | ingen and release in a single sentence? | 09:58 |
| AutoStatic | ha ha yes! | 09:59 |
| hollunder | for the last couple of years it was: the svn repo is all you get | 10:00 |
| janosch2 | any questions? | 10:03 |
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| grammoboy | when will it released? | 10:05 |
| hollunder | I didn't quite hear that | 10:06 |
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| nilsge | when the jet lag will be compensated | 10:06 |
| grammoboy | is it possible to use alsamodular synth patches in Ingen? | 10:06 |
| AutoStatic | yes | 10:08 |
| AutoStatic | i think so, if you use the ported modules | 10:08 |
| AutoStatic | probably won't work one on one though | 10:09 |
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| AutoStatic | aaah, there's already a python script to import patches | 10:16 |
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| hollunder | Wow, ingen and release, I still can't believe it... | 10:19 |
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| grammoboy | make sure he doesn't leave the conference before releasing it ;) | 10:22 |
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| fundamental | grammoboy: are you planning on holding people hostage until the next LAC? :p | 10:24 |
| grammoboy | nope, but maybe you can find somebody else for that job :) | 10:25 |
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| grammoboy | I tried to add all the new modules names of ams_lv2 to ingenams https://github.com/johnsen/ingenams/blob/master/ingenams | 11:34 |
| grammoboy | but i've no programming skills | 11:34 |
| grammoboy | ImportError: No module named ingen | 11:34 |
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| czhenry | python? make sure you set your PYTHONPATH variable to the directory containing ingen.py (or the directory "ingen" idk, I haven't looked at the ingen code specifically) | 11:46 |
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| czhenry | read some bits now: you're probably trying to run ingenams, which is in the same directory with ingen.py, just add that directory (ingen/scripts) to your PYTHONPATH variable | 11:53 |
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| janosch2 | Now: Testing audio plugins and UIs with Carla - Lightning Talk | 12:03 |
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| grammoboy | czhenry, hm http://fpaste.org/209373/28668032/ | 12:14 |
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| fundamental | oh the clipping | 12:19 |
| czhenry | grammoboy: what you're missing next is "urllib"--if you're installing python packages system wide, use "easy_install urllib" or "pip install urllib" | 12:21 |
| czhenry | grammoboy: there's usually a long train of python dependencies waiting in every python program. If you're lucky, the dependencies are known and documented :) | 12:22 |
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| benn_ | great, we've got an improvised talk | 12:27 |
| fundamental | it looks like the QJack dev was a no-show | 12:29 |
| benn_ | sound is now working | 12:30 |
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| grammoboy | czhenry, Could not find any downloads that satisfy the requirement urllib :/ | 12:32 |
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| falktx | the first part is done | 12:33 |
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| czhenry | grammoboy: is it python 3? google for "urllib pypi" to find it in the python package index | 12:36 |
| czhenry | grammoboy: you might need to run "easy_install urllib3" instead | 12:36 |
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| grammoboy | czhenry, you run that as root? | 12:38 |
| czhenry | grammoboy: yes (there are alternatives, but it's a longer discussion) | 12:39 |
| falktx | we need more people at the mod workshops | 12:40 |
| falktx | P5 | 12:40 |
| falktx | come here people :) | 12:40 |
| falktx | you'll learn how to make these little cute guis: http://portalmod.com/plugins | 12:40 |
| LAbot` | Title: The MOD plugin library (at portalmod.com) | 12:40 |
| kfoltman | falktx: argh, two interesting synth talks at the same time :/ | 12:41 |
| czhenry | wow, awesome work Andres Perez Lopez | 12:41 |
| falktx | kfoltman: where are you? I haven't seen you yet | 12:42 |
| grammoboy | czhenry, ah the package installs, but didn't solve the problem | 12:42 |
| kfoltman | falktx: P1 | 12:42 |
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| grammoboy | bbl | 12:43 |
| kfoltman | urllib used to be part of standard python library, no? | 12:44 |
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| kfoltman | hmm, am I seeing a F4 discovery board :D | 12:47 |
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| cehteh | heho :) | 12:48 |
| czhenry | kfoltman: I think so--this is weird (clearly urllib2 and urllib3 are completely different though) | 12:48 |
| cehteh | benny/ichthyo, there? | 12:49 |
| fundamental | "it's not a bug it's a feature" :p | 12:50 |
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| wrl | fundamental: hey, worked for the original supersaw synths | 12:51 |
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| kfoltman | and for many others | 12:51 |
| wrl | true | 12:51 |
| kfoltman | I don't think many FM synths prevented the aliasing from FM | 12:52 |
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| wrl | afaik there's not much you can do other than oversample like hell | 12:52 |
| wrl | i'm sure there's some state of the art that goes further than that, but | 12:52 |
| fundamental | I wonder what samplerate they're using in the hardware | 12:53 |
| fundamental | for these sorts of applications aliasing is only really bothersome if the samplerate isn't fixed | 12:54 |
| kfoltman | if it's stm32f4 board then it can't be that much, it's using a cs43l22 codec | 12:54 |
| fundamental | they could be oversampling internally | 12:54 |
| fundamental | I haven't used those boards, so I don't really know how much breathing room you generally are left with computationally wise | 12:55 |
| wrl | fundamental: andree has said that the CPU load of oversampling is prohibitive | 12:55 |
| kfoltman | fundamental: it's a cortex m4f core running at 168 MHz | 12:56 |
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| wrl | nice, grimy | 12:58 |
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| fundamental | there's the external modulation support :) | 13:11 |
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| falktx | have they said how much the final hw is going to cost? | 13:18 |
| fundamental | I don't think so | 13:19 |
| lacmoderator | interesting questions, I couldn't find it on the website either | 13:20 |
| wrl | that's fresh | 13:20 |
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| lacmoderator | *question | 13:21 |
| falktx | I can't hear the stream (busy with the mod workshop), can someone type the answer please | 13:21 |
| lacmoderator | ok | 13:21 |
| bgola | falktx: 320 | 13:24 |
| fundamental | hm, that's pretty pricy | 13:24 |
| bgola | eur | 13:24 |
| falktx | thanks | 13:24 |
| wrl | fundamental: actually not all that bad for a boutique hw synth | 13:25 |
| fundamental | wrl: yeah, synth hardware certainly is expensive | 13:25 |
| falktx | can we automate its parameters via midi cc? | 13:26 |
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| fundamental | I do find it hard to justify some of that when there's somewhat limited costs in terms of the electro-mechanical aspects though | 13:27 |
| fundamental | falktx: I think so | 13:27 |
| fundamental | there's also the CV inputs | 13:27 |
| falktx | wow, nice | 13:27 |
| wrl | i'm quite content just comparing the price against other products in the same category | 13:27 |
| wrl | i don't think 320 is bad at all. it's perhaps even slightly undervaluing it; i think they could charge more. | 13:28 |
| fundamental | quite possibly, I'm not their target segment, nor have I built any hardware anywhere near the point of sale | 13:28 |
| wrl | word | 13:29 |
| fundamental | it's quite the accomplishment to get everything together and succeed in making that first sale | 13:29 |
| falktx | no crappy proprietary sysex is always a big plus | 13:31 |
| fundamental | falktx: I don't think they specified how presets could be transfered on/off device, so I wouldn't be 100% sure | 13:32 |
| ventosus | Wil the final segmentsynth design be based on the STM discoveries as seen in the demo? I thought you can't put them in any product, just for evaluation | 13:33 |
| falktx | tranfering presets is fine, it's not covered by the midi spec | 13:33 |
| falktx | fundamental: it can change presets via midi messages right? | 13:33 |
| Theremin | ventosus: no, they will not be part of the final product | 13:33 |
| fundamental | falktx: I think so, they also talked about having something similar to mod's online preset exploration | 13:34 |
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| ventosus | Theremin: custom board then? or something readily available? Just curious... | 13:36 |
| Theremin | ventosus: Because of the size constraints, custom board will be populated in the final product. | 13:38 |
| riot | NixOS, is anyone using it? | 13:43 |
| czhenry | RE: streaming performance today, I'm about 10-15 minutes out of realtime (req huge cache size for any reliable watching), so I started poking around with traceroute to see who gets the blame: Hetzner.de--my connection crosses the ocean in about 450ms, reaches the hetzner.de core switches, then bounces around for 600ms before arriving at stackingdwarves | 13:48 |
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| fundamental | czhenry: I think I'm only watching 2 seconds out of realtime, though that's with the low quality | 13:51 |
| janosch2 | I'm on campus in Mainz and streaming the LQ video from stackingdwarves. I have about 5s delay. | 13:51 |
| fundamental | the high quality stream was much more prone to delay when I tried to use it | 13:52 |
| czhenry | it was working pretty well yesterday, so I didn't mess with debugging (assigning blame) | 13:53 |
| fundamental | it was interesting to see that .webm really doesn't like running in browsers | 13:54 |
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| janosch2 | fundamental, it was running for me sometimes. but using mplayer is much more reliable. | 14:00 |
| lacmoderator | any questions already? | 14:05 |
| Haskellfant | 55 | 14:06 |
| Haskellfant | sry | 14:06 |
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| fundamental | I wonder what in that last session was causing so much 50Hz noise. the speaker's microphone perhaps? | 14:13 |
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| lacmoderator | I think there is some problem in the system that is installed in this lecture hall. Unfortunetely we can't change anything on that. | 14:15 |
| fundamental | when I'm watching tomorrow I'll just set up my own notch filter | 14:16 |
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| fundamental | plenty of other harmonics in there, but killing the first one might be good enough | 14:17 |
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| hollunder | I still have hair, no need for a bitwig | 14:28 |
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| hollunder | yes, there is audio on the stream, no picture yet | 14:31 |
| hollunder | I did hear the tapping on the mic | 14:35 |
| hollunder | sounds like a weird organ | 14:36 |
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| hollunder | nilsge, is there a recording of your workshop? | 14:40 |
| nilsge | hollunder: it did not happen. so no | 14:41 |
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| hollunder | nilsge, oh, too bad | 14:47 |
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| pankid | no video? | 14:57 |
| janosch2 | i have video | 14:58 |
| czhenry | pankid: try mplayer | 14:58 |
| czhenry | you might be running into libavcodec issues with the browser or another video player (on debian wheezy here and mplayer is the only option with working video) | 15:00 |
| janosch2 | we have manjaro here. mplayer, vlc and ffplay works | 15:02 |
| czhenry | never heard of manjaro | 15:03 |
| janosch2 | it's an arch derivative | 15:04 |
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| nilsge | I just got word from Jacob Dawid. He is ill and doesn't want to infect us all. So he is not at the LAC, naturally he couldn't do the QT Jack lightning talk. | 15:06 |
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| pankid | what distro is he using? | 15:09 |
| grammoboy | ubuntu studio if you ask me | 15:09 |
| pankid | I got the stream working with vlc under arch | 15:09 |
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| EamonnTobin | From his wallpaper i'd say ubuntu studio as well | 15:10 |
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| pankid | is this always in europe? | 15:12 |
| lacmoderator | nope | 15:12 |
| janosch2 | it was in usa in 2012 | 15:12 |
| grammoboy | pretty complex application... | 15:13 |
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| dvzrv | does bitwig only work with jack being started by bitwig, or is it okay to start jack before starting bitwig (like with ardour)? | 15:21 |
| hamnstar | anyone know if the presentations are going to be put up on youtube etc? | 15:23 |
| janosch2 | we will put the videos online after the conference | 15:23 |
| janosch2 | but we need to cut & encode them first. | 15:24 |
| hamnstar | janosch2 awesome thx :) | 15:25 |
| lacmoderator | dvzrv: answered? | 15:25 |
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| hamnstar | are the P2, P5 workshops going to be put up as well? | 15:26 |
| grammoboy | any bitwig users here? | 15:26 |
| dvzrv | lacmoderator: yep! | 15:27 |
| Drumfix | one user here | 15:27 |
| janosch2 | hamnstar, some are being recorded. we have a camera in P2 which should have recorded everything. and we had one in P5 for at least one workshop. | 15:27 |
| janosch2 | and those are being put online after the conference too | 15:28 |
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| hamnstar | awesome! thx | 15:29 |
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| janosch2 | the question was: will there be nondestructive quantization? | 15:33 |
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| grammoboy | i've a trip to the moon on my wish-list | 15:34 |
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| grammoboy | that's a nice feature | 15:38 |
| Drumfix | pitchwhell ... | 15:39 |
| janosch2 | question was: what kind of stretch algorithms are there? | 15:44 |
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| Drumfix | hint: assign it to its own process | 15:51 |
| janosch2 | any general questions? | 15:52 |
| grammoboy | how successful is bitwig on linux? | 15:52 |
| dvzrv | java interface... oh well | 15:53 |
| marcdinkum | why java? | 15:53 |
| Drumfix | the if is no problem, but the backend is everything but not realtime safe | 15:53 |
| grammoboy | will bitwig 'always' run on Linux in the future? Or what are the future plans on linux? | 15:54 |
| dvzrv | Drumfix: might be, I dislike java frontends nonetheless ;) | 15:55 |
| janosch2 | question by aggraef: so how about lv2 support? | 15:56 |
| Drumfix | Question: will you stick with portaudio as the backend? | 15:57 |
| Drumfix | you use jack/alsa through portaudio right now, which is the source of many problems... | 16:00 |
| hollunder | but it is using jack through PortAudio, right? | 16:00 |
| hollunder | I too have seen many issues with programs that use PortAudio. | 16:01 |
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| grammoboy | such a expensive pro app should have native jack | 16:04 |
| grammoboy | why not native jack? | 16:04 |
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| grammoboy | anyway, it's good that such a presentation have it's place at lac imho | 16:05 |
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| hollunder | probably no harder to do than PortAudio. But it would mean a second, separate engine thingy, so maybe more maintenance work. | 16:06 |
| Drumfix | they use portaudio because its crossplatform (as is java) | 16:07 |
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| hollunder | but the engine part is C++ | 16:08 |
| pankid | grammoboy: is it even that expensive? | 16:08 |
| hollunder | if they manage to go all jack, then a native client only would be possible | 16:08 |
| Drumfix | portaudio abstracts the alsa/jack/audiounit/alsa | 16:08 |
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| Drumfix | portaudio abstracts the alsa/jack/audiounit/asio | 16:08 |
| hollunder | EUR 259.00 | 16:09 |
| hollunder | 20% off aparently | 16:09 |
| grammoboy | I thought it was around 300 | 16:09 |
| pankid | ableton is $450 | 16:09 |
| pankid | i guess renoise is only 70 or whatever | 16:09 |
| grammoboy | all floss and free tools on linux have native jack, isn't it strange that an app for 300 euro doesn't have it? | 16:10 |
| hollunder | logic is 200$ | 16:10 |
| hollunder | well, audacity also uses portaudio, with bad results | 16:11 |
| hollunder | and I had huge troubles with jitsi as well (also portaudio) | 16:11 |
| pankid | yeah, jitsi is not my favorite | 16:12 |
| grammoboy | I also don't see problems with maintenance and support of native jack, in contrary I expect less support issues | 16:12 |
| hollunder | They need portaudio or something else for now, so adding a native jack client to that is additional work if jack through portaudio works well | 16:12 |
| pankid | if they write to native jack, will that translate over to windows and osx? | 16:12 |
| pankid | because unfortunately, that is where the money is. | 16:13 |
| Drumfix | if they'd just load the portaudio lib as a shared or external library, using a fixed version wouldn't be a problem. | 16:13 |
| Drumfix | But they they compiled it in hard. | 16:13 |
| hollunder | Yes, there are jack servers for OSX and Windows (jack2 is cross platform) | 16:13 |
| grammoboy | why would you use jack / portaudio on osx and windows? | 16:13 |
| pankid | hollunder: oh, I am dumb | 16:14 |
| pankid | I just assumed | 16:14 |
| Drumfix | as a substitute of rewire | 16:14 |
| hollunder | it is uncommon to use jack on OSX and Windows, but it is available | 16:14 |
| Drumfix | s/of/for/ | 16:14 |
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| grammoboy | then the crossplatform argument for portaudio fails | 16:15 |
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| hollunder | well, maybe it is because of midi. They don't do jack midi but something else atm. | 16:15 |
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| Drumfix | portaudio is audio only and supports as its backends alsa/jack on Linux, asio on Win and coreaudio on OSX | 16:16 |
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| grammoboy | ah ok | 16:16 |
| hollunder | but there is portmidi | 16:16 |
| Drumfix | they are not useing portmidi | 16:16 |
| hollunder | well, as long as jack through portaudio works well enough there is no good reason for a native jack client | 16:17 |
| hollunder | bye | 16:18 |
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| bluebell | Hi all | 16:37 |
| bluebell | couldn't make it to lac yet, will come tommorrow between 9 and 10 o clock to join some workshops | 16:38 |
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| bluebell | Hi Rui | 16:43 |
| rncbc | bluebell: hello | 16:44 |
| bluebell | I'll come tomorrow and attend your workshop | 16:45 |
| rncbc | bluebell: great, i was already missing you :) | 16:46 |
| bluebell | hehe | 16:46 |
| bluebell | dry your tears :) | 16:46 |
| rncbc | bluebell: remember to bring your list of complaints :) | 16:50 |
| bluebell | Sure :) | 16:50 |
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| janosch3 | Anyone still awake? Do you have any idea why the stream doesn't want to work in browser anymore? I mean it worked well for me yesterday. | 22:00 |
| janosch3 | so I'm using firefox and it should work with webm with vp8 (quoting docs). and that's exactly what is linked on the website and what I receive when I open the stream via ffplay. | 22:16 |
| fundamental | perhaps firefox has some really weird buffering behavior or something | 22:21 |
| falktx | the stream plays fine in mplayer | 22:26 |
| janosch3 | I can see in my network status that I'm receiving the frames. But firefox just won't display it. | 22:38 |
| janosch3 | falktx, yeah i know. i just tried to figure it out. would have been nice to view it in firefox. nevertheless, i have to sleep now. we're streaming from 10 until 18 tomorrow again. | 22:41 |
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| janosch3 | but at least we fixed the issues we had with the second camera. those stupid cameras have the same "globally unique id". | 22:46 |
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| janosch3 | good night | 22:46 |
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